Note For Anyone Writing About Me

Guide to Writing About Me

I am an Autistic person,not a person with autism. I am also not Aspergers. The diagnosis isn't even in the DSM anymore, and yes, I agree with the consolidation of all autistic spectrum stuff under one umbrella. I have other issues with the DSM.

I don't like Autism Speaks. I'm Disabled, not differently abled, and I am an Autistic activist. Self-advocate is true, but incomplete.

Citing My Posts

MLA: Zisk, Alyssa Hillary. "Post Title." Yes, That Too. Day Month Year of post. Web. Day Month Year of retrieval.

APA: Zisk, A. H. (Year Month Day of post.) Post Title. [Web log post]. Retrieved from http://yesthattoo.blogspot.com/post-specific-URL.

Showing posts with label Abuse. Show all posts
Showing posts with label Abuse. Show all posts

Thursday, June 9, 2016

Alyssa Reads Uniquely Human: Part 6

I continue to read Uniquely Human. I feel like I am repeating myself a lot as I do so. The prior installation in the series can be found here, and the start of the series is here.

Chapter 5 (parts and chapters are 1 off from each other because I did the front and back material first) is titled Emotional Memory. Heads up for discussions of PTSD and of flashbacks. Heads up also that he says this isn't the same as PTSD without really saying why he thinks it isn't.

When Dr. Prizant writes, "Julio suddenly found himself recalling his moments of panic and sharp pain, as if he were experiencing a flashback" (95) I have to wonder how much it's an "as if." A lot of autistic people have PTSD. A lot of autistic people have flashbacks. Some of us have fully immersive memories even when the memory isn't necessarily traumatic (not me, no minds eye over here.) To be clear, I'm not saying Dr. Prizant is wrong to notice the strength of memories. I'm saying that our memories can be even stronger than he's writing.

These memories have effects. I think that the descriptions in "How memories explain behavior" are useful, though there's always that behaviorizing thing. Explanations are given, but it's external detective reasons (he talks explicitly about using detective work to find the explanations) rather than internal motivations, and there's generally an assumption that overcoming whatever the traumatic memory was is a goal. (I think it often is, but sometimes the actual solution is avoid the trigger.)

I like how he discusses that "Anything can be a trigger."
I am very confused by how he thinks "Good job!" and similar praise would be a surprising trigger for anyone who's ever dealt with an ABA or discrete trial type therapist. That's something most anyone who really listens to autistic adults would know. (Unless he's giving it as an example that parents or educators might find surprising? He seemed personally confused as well, though.)

He then turns to PTSD. He says there are differences between what these students are experiencing and PTSD (sometimes I guess) but that there is also overlap (like a lot of autistic adults actually having PTSD!) I guess the "rarely prove as debilitating or intrusive as PTSD can be"(102) leaves space for emotional memory stuff to sometimes be as bad as PTSD, but no mention of the fact that some of us literally actually have PTSD.  Which would totally explain why PTSD research is useful for understanding our issues.

Oh hey a mention of avoiding the triggers as a strategy.

Looking at Amy's story, I don't get how the option of going to the theme park without going on rides isn't forcing her to go? It's still making her go to the theme park even if it's not making her go on the rides...

The idea of explaining exactly what is going on and what will happen so that we know what's coming is a good one.

Not calling things "work" -- I get the logic there, but there are also problems! There is, in fact, a difference between work and play, and a difference between free play and therapy. Not giving someone the words to communicate those differences isn't a good strategy for getting them to accept the one of the two that they dislike. (It's going to contaminate the one they like.)

Making a life that has positive memories in it is also a good idea. (No, really, he suggests this in the closing for the chapter.) It's important to keep in mind what we're going to find positive and fun because it's often not what parents and professionals would expect.

You can find part 7 here.

Wednesday, June 8, 2016

Alyssa Reads Uniquely Human: Part 5

I'm reading Uniquely Human. The start of the series is here, and the previous part here. I've been loving the comments so far -- very informative! Please keep telling me things :D

Somehow the description of Derek's internalizing Dr. Prizant's pattern/rhythym of September visits rather than October ones is reminding me of the description of David's rules in, well, Rules: Derek has an idea of how the world should work and that's a rule, but we don't get to see why it's a rule. It's just a rule. (And David's Rules were given as an example of behaviorizing depictions in that Disability in Kidlit article y'all should really read. Just pointing that out.)

I raise my eyebrow at the idea that autism is a disability of trust. I raise that eyebrow very high, figuratively. Literally I don't raise it much because my eyebrows remain on my face and my forehead isn't that big.

The idea that we can't always trust our bodies I buy -- I can trust that if my body is giving me information, then the information is good, but there's a lot of information I don't consistently get. Am I hungry? Cold? Tired? I don't know. I've broken bones and not known it. This isn't quite the same as the mistrust that Dr. Prizant is describing: he's describing not understanding what minor illnesses like colds are (could it be that no one bothered to explain to us that these things exist and are minor and will pass? Also, look back at the echolalia chapter for the "Do-ahhh" example, kid knew full well what was wrong even if he couldn't say it in the standard words.)

I think "routine changes and unexpected things are hard" is getting framed as being about trust in the world, which, I can kind of get, but I don't fully agree with. A lot of autistic people have funky circadian rhythms, and I know the way mine is funky is that it is tied very firmly to the sun. That is, I don't actually care what the clock is doing for the purpose of determining when I am alert vs sleepy and when I get hungry. I care what the sun is doing. My troubles (or lack thereof this year, when I was able to shift most of my schedule a clock hour when DST started) with daylight savings aren't about trusting when things happen. They're about "uh I don't care what the clock says, I wake up when the sun rises and then I want food" and similar mismatches caused by following the sun.

Similarly, while trust lost in the world could work, approximately, for the other example given, it's not the only explanation possible and just saying "trust in the world" isn't satisfying. Plus the descriptions, even with some level of "trust in the world" explanation given, are at best mostly behaviorizing with a touch of humanizing in there.

Oh god I think the trust in others part is going the Theory of Mind route, though without using those words. Apparently most people are hardwired to be able to predict the behavior of others and read body language and such. Which others? Others like themselves. Most people can't read my body language for beans. If this isn't Theory of Mind itself, it's got the same rhetorical issue: theory of whose mind?

The constant vigilance related to this trouble predicting people (who are often terrible to us!) is dead-on, though. Oh, my goodness, are people exhausting to deal with, because they're unpredictable and don't think they are.

Fear and anxiety are definitely also things. (Holy wow do I have anxiety. A lot of folks think I don't get scared easily because they don't recognize my body language well enough to tell when I'm scared and because I don't make that much effort to avoid the things that scare me (too many things!) plus I definitely have Gryffindor tendencies anyways. They're wrong. Sensory issues, people having actually been terrible (still no mention of how much more frequently we are victims of abuse by parents or teachers, which would totally cause disregulation and fear) , unpredictable animals, and more.

I like how Dr. Prizant mentioned that things other people might like could be scary for autistic people. I also like that he realized (at least in the case described) that forcing a student to participate in the scary thing would be a bad idea, and said so (plus why!)

I like how he points out that when we try to control situations, there are actual good reasons we might try to do so! Pointing out that professionals often try to seize control is also handy, but can we talk a little bit more about how much of autism therapy is about the therapist being rigid and controlling? Because is it ever!

I know "selective mutism" (or apparently "elective mutism") is the term used, but ugh. As someone who loses speech, and not just from anxiety, I really, really hate descriptors that imply I am choosing to have speech go kaput on me. (Also the kid may well have been situationally not capable of speech in addition to sometimes choosing not to speak. This is a thing that happens.)

The bit on how children exert control is definitely behaviorizing in the depictions. Since the birthday party is for Jose, not sure why the parents and therapists are so stubborn and rigid in their insistence that it be planned their way, as in, expanded beyond the group Jose originally said he wanted to invite :p.

By persistently giving the message "You must change," we are inadvertently communicating "You're not getting it right. You're screwing up." (90).
Inadvertently? Inadvertently?!  Folks, if y'all can't figure out that telling us constantly to change everything about ourselves is telling us not just that we aren't "getting it right" but that we are inherently wrong, then we are not the ones lacking in empathy here unholy pancakes what even is this. You don't get to do this stuff and then claim it was an accident. (Plus I remember Lovaas, there's the pieces but the therapist needs to build the person?)

The advice for building trust seems OK on the surface though I don't pretend to trust the ways it'll be interpreted and used by parents and educators. The celebrated "successes" will likely be times where an autistic person acted in neurotypically expected ways. (As a contrast, and illustrate to what else success could mean, one of my big goals this year was switching over to writing or typing as soon as doing so would be more efficient than speaking, rather than waiting until speech was entirely gone.) The choices offered are likely to be superficial things like which sandwich we want or which approved activity we want rather than the choice to not participate in any of the social options or generally to reject all the suggestions and come up with something entirely different. ("When do you want to practice eye contact?" Um, literally never, thanks.) Which isn't a problem with the advice, but it is a problem that I want to warn parents and educators about.

You can find part 6 here.

Thursday, February 26, 2015

#AutismSpeaks10 Aren't #AutismChampions.

I've been fairly active on Twitter the last few days with the Autistic and allied takeover of the #AutismSpeaks10 hashtag, and now the new tag, #AutismChampions (the s at the end is important, because without it you wind up in a different tag.)

I've also been super-busy offline, and I've been working on some cool advocacy, activism, and art stuff that's not ready yet, so I've not had enough time for that and blogging typically. In lieu of a more typical blog post, here's embeddings of all my original tweets to those two tags. :)

I seriously recommend looking at both tags, though, and maybe retweeting some stuff or adding your own! Warning, though: Some of the stuff Autism Speaks has done is really triggering, and we are talking about it.





(The Chinese tweet is a translation of this.)





(This is Chinese for the TNJU (Tianjin Normal University) tweet.)
































































Friday, January 30, 2015

Response on Stem Cell Therapy

This is a response to a question I was asked. Here's the question.
Dear Alyssa, Greetings from India I found your blog while I was researching about special schools in China. I enjoyed reading your posts. I wanted to know your opinion on stem cell therapy for autistic individuals. What are your thoughts? Do you support it? Do you think its useful, not just in terms of autism but also for other neurological disorders. I would love to know your perspective. Love, Avantika
The short answer is that I don't support stem therapy "for autism"  (it makes no sense) but I do for people with conditions where stem cell therapy makes sense (some heart stuff, liver stuff, sometimes Crohns) who are also autistic.

There's a few different opinions that are all part of the long answer.

  • There's my opinion on stem cell therapy in general.
  • There's science side, is stem cell therapy even relevant to anything about autism?
  • There's my opinion on biomedical treatment of any kind "for autism."
  • There's my opinion on stem cell therapy for other reasons on people who happen to be autistic.
Anyways.
Stem Cell Therapy in General

My opinion on stem cell therapy in general is that it's still pretty experimental, but there are things it's been shown to work at least some with. It's used for some liver stuff, some heart stuff, some neurodegenerative stuff, osteoathritis, and Crohns. What all these things have in common, so far as I can tell, is that adding new cells that work like patients and doctors expect them to work helps with whatever the patient doesn't want their body doing. 

Some people have ethical issues with stem cell research and therapy for various reasons. As a sciency person, I know that most of those concerns don't even apply in quite a few stem cell areas (adult stem cell lines and umbilical lines have nothing to do with abortion, fetal lines coming from "spare" fertilized eggs after in vitro could become people if implanted but it's also not abortion, and I'm pro-choice anyways.) So I think stem cell research and resulting therapies are really cool, as long as they 1) are working towards a goal that the person being treated supports (not a parent, not a doctor, not a caretaker, the person being treated) and 2) there's scientific reason to believe that it can (help) accomplish the goal. The amount of evidence needed is less for treatments that the person being treated knows are experimental, like as part of a study, and more for stuff that we're saying is known to work. Which level of evidence a person being treated wants before they agree to it (and there has to be consent here) is up to the person.

Relevance to Autism

Going back to what the things being treated have in common, these are conditions where adding new, healthy cells can help with whatever the problem is. Autism does not fit the bill, even a little bit. Even if you hold with the idea that autism is somehow terrible and reducing "symptoms of autism" is the holy grail of treatment, the relevance of stem cell therapies to autism itself is doubtful. Some evidence suggests that we've got extra brain cells and connections in comparison to neurotypical expectations, among other things. 

This isn't a statement about stem cell therapy for autistic people who could benefit for other reasons, like if an autistic person also had Crohns or osteoathritis or any of the other stuff that's getting successfully treated with stem cell therapy, the question would be about relevance to that condition rather than autism.

But no, stem cell therapy is not relevant to autism.

Biomedical Stuff for Autism

Biomedical treatments "for autism" are generally pretty confused about what they're supposed to be treating, how it's supposed to work, and everything in between. Stem cells "for autism" don't look like an exception here. 

At best, such treatments are aimed at reducing discomfort that we have for other reasons (like the fact that autism and epilepsy can occur together, autism and autoimmune stuff can occur together, just by sheer probabilities, unless autism and condition X are not independent (having one affects the chance of having the other) they will occur together for about 1% of people with condition X.) Those treatments would actually help with the condition they're properly meant for, and make autistic people who have that other condition more comfortable. Often, our being in less distress is wrongly taken to mean that we are less autistic, and so people decide that this treatment now reduces "autism." For an autistic person who also has any of the stuff that stem cell therapies are actually good for? The relevant form of stem cell therapy could go here.

At worst, such treatments are actively abusive and have no reason to work. Bleach enemas, chelation, chemical castration, and a lot of other "biomedical" and "alt med" things people do "for autism" go here. If the autistic person in question doesn't have anything for which stem cell therapies are actually relevant, then stem cell therapy may well go here.

Regardless, treatments "for autism" are also rooted in the idea that autism is wrong or lesser, while neurotypicality (or being able to fake it) is ideal. That's directly opposed to the neurodiversity paradigm, so the idea of any treatment "for autism" is not high on my list of good things. 

Rather than trying to make Autistic people be "less autistic," I support giving us the treatment and tools that help us live better lives as Autistic people. If we've got any stuff going on that's causing us problems (I've got asthma, for example,) then treating those problems is just as good an idea for Autistic people as it is for those lacking autism. People tend to prefer feeling good to feeling sick, after all. The problem is when people conflate "feeling better from other stuff" with "less autistic." We're not actually less autistic, and less autistic isn't actually a good goal anyways.

I've talked a bit about what education that's based in teaching us to live well as autistic people could look like, but it's so unusual that finding anything like that is tough. That's also not particularly the point of this answer, but if you're interested, here are a few:

Stem Cell Therapy (when the person is also Autistic)

I don't see how this is different from stem cell therapy when the person isn't autistic. If someone has a condition where stem cell therapy is actually relevant, them being autistic isn't a counter-indicator.

Saturday, October 11, 2014

#WalkInIssysShoes

Warning for mentions of attempted ableist murder.

Isabelle Stapleton survived a murder attempt by her mother. You would think it'd be clear that she is the victim.

BUT!

Isabelle is autistic.

This means people view her mother as the victim, as the person to have sympathy for, as the person whose shoes we should walk in, according to that old metaphorical statement. This means people expect us not to judge, because... apparently "Don't try to kill your kids" is an unreasonable bar to set? (Not everyone is Christian anyways, I'm not! But the statement is "Judge not, lest ye be judged," so it sounds like judging by a standard you're OK being judged by in turn is still fine. And I'm totally fine with being held to the standard of not killing my kids, or I will be once I have them. Right now I'd mostly be confused by the current impossibility of my failing this standard.

This means people may not even admit that Isabelle has a point of view. Yeah. Isabelle's a person, she's got a point of view, and in terms of the "Walk in someone's shoes" metaphor, Isabelle Stapleton has shoes. She probably has literal ones too, because most people don't hate wearing those as much as I do and I still have to deal with wearing them a lot of the time.

Anyways. Can we try having some sympathy, empathy, etc for Issy? You know, the person who survived her mother trying to kill her?

Seriously. I only have one thing to say about Kelli Stapleton, and I've already Tweeted it:

Thursday, September 18, 2014

Acceptance Vs. Recovery

So this was actually a bit back, but I've been thinking on and off about my exact intended wording. I've also just been really busy. Taking five classes, teaching one, assisting three others, playing sports, and working on a paper for INSPIRe Student Symposium has that effect.

Anyways.

Think Inclusive wrote an article. This is a thing they do pretty often. This particular one started off by showcasing a poet, which is cool, and then mentioned that he had also been interviewed by a site called Autism Live, which includes language about "recovery." That struck an uncomfortable note with the author over at Think Inclusive, so they asked: "Can Autism Acceptance and Autism Recovery Coexist?" as I believe both title and Twitter text. Definitely Twitter text. 

I responded, as I am wont to do.
.@think_inclusive Re autism acceptance and autism recovery coexisting: LOL NOPE. Recovery=pass for NT, lose recognition of passing effort. 
I mean, the problems are more numerous than that. But the idea that if you act "less autistic" in public, no matter how much effort that takes, you therefore are "less autistic," potentially even "not autistic anymore," is kind of at the root of some icky stuff. Including the idea of recovery from autism, really. Because how else has recovery from autism ever been defined? Seriously, when has recovery from autism as a concept ever been defined in a way other than "this person is no longer acting in ways that person X finds to be obviously autistic," with no regard given to the amount of effort required to do so?

I'm gonna go with never.

Sure, there might have been times when people interpreted that "evidence" to mean that things more core were changed too, but even that isn't consistently happening. It's an idea of autism as some set of external stuff in how we act, rather than a more internal thing of how our minds work.

And I have plenty of criticism for the goals and concepts of passing for neurotypical, beyond what I'm putting here. But.

Autism acceptance involves teaching autistic people as we are, accepting that our minds work... however they happen to work (that's not even necessarily consistent over time and between energy levels within a single autistic person, many of us have multiple modes of thought, but there are some patterns in how autistic people's minds tend to work.) It involves saying, "This person is always going to be autistic, and we're going to work on skills that are compatible with their autistic self, in ways that are compatible with their autistic self, with goals matching their goals." It views growth into an Autistic adult as the goal.

Autism recovery views growth into a non-Autistic adult as the goal.

I think that's a pretty core difference: autism acceptance says that an autistic child will grow into an autistic adult, and that that's great. Autism recovery says that an autistic child should grow into a non-autistic adult, and that an autistic person being able to "pass" for non-autistic, even if only by the cluelessness of those around them, is the same as being not autistic anymore. These are pretty incompatible ideas.

Wednesday, September 10, 2014

"how can an autistic guy prevent rape"

Welcome to another post in "someone found my blog by searching this, so I'm going to respond." Warning for discussion of rape, assault, and sexual abuse.

This is actually a really good question to ask. Reasons:


  1. Overall, men do most of the raping. It's about 90% done by men. That means men are in a really good position to stop it by calling out their fellow men.
  2. Autistic people are way more likely than people in the general population to be sexually abused or assaulted at some point. It's not only autistic women being attacked, not by a long shot, but still a majority.
  3. Autistic people tend to spend a lot of time in the company of other autistic people, sometimes by choice and sometimes by segregation done by others. This means putting autistic men and autistic women and autistic nonbinary folks all in one place.
Now. I know that an autistic man isn't going to be able to do much to protect a fellow resident in an institution if the harasser/attacker/abuser is staff. I wish he could! But it probably won't actually stop the problem. Checking in with the fellow resident, letting them know that what's happening is wrong, offering to report it if there is anyone to report it to, those kinds of things have the potential to be helpful (and aren't limited by gender or neurotype!) Saying something in the moment might buy a delay, but that's a maybe, and it comes with a risk of being the next target. The power differential in an institution is a big problem, and it's not OK, but I'm not really comfortable telling residents to risk their own safety to correct injustices there. (I also won't argue if someone decides to.)

If it's between residents, however, there's probably less of a power differential going on, which means saying something in the moment or not leaving the attacker alone with their intended victim is more doable and more likely to be effective. The stuff for when it was a staff member victimizing a resident is still good to do. The thing to worry about here is more general rape culture stuff: most places don't like to admit that sexual assault happens on their watch, or if it does, to pretend it's the victims fault. This makes reporting against the will of the victim a really bad idea, because they're sadly probably right about the consequences that would come to them for being victimized.

And of course, if you're an autistic guy living or working in an institution, don't rape people there. This is a substatement of don't rape. This actually applies outside of institutions, too. Which I'm going on to, next.

Outside an institution, in mixed neurotype places, you're on the same kind of "how to prevent rape" as most guys. If someone you're flirting with tells you they aren't interested, listen. (Admitting that you have trouble with subtle and that you need more direct is potentially a thing because autism, but people being afraid to do the blunt thing because of a very reasonable fear of violence from men in general means you might not get the bluntness needed. Actual problem, leaving people well enough alone as soon as there is a signal of "no" that you understand is really all I've got here.) If you can see that someone isn't interested and the other guy isn't backing off, intervene. Tell him what you see, tell him to back off, tell him not to push another drink on the person! It's scary, yes, but think how much scarier it is to be the person who needs this guy to back off and can't get him to!

All this stuff I'm saying you should tell other guys not to do apply to you too: if the person you were hoping to date or to have sex with says no, or maybe, or not now, or anything of that sort, stop. Don't keep asking. Don't give them more wine. Definitely don't tell autistic people you could theoretically reproduce with that they need to have sex with you for the survival of the neurotype. That is extremely not OK. 

And another reminder: If you see someone else doing those things, tell them to stop! Yes, it's scary. Being the person this stuff is being said to is scarier. And, you know, you're the one who asked how to prevent rape. This is an answer: stop the lead ins, stop the "little" ways that boundaries are violated which lead to the big ones.

Monday, February 17, 2014

Slightly Disorganized Thoughts on Forgiveness and Moving On

Warnings: References (no descriptions) of abuse, violence, people hurting each other.

I've been thinking about the ideas of moving on vs forgiving vs forgetting. These aren't the same things. Moving on is a prerequisite for forgetting/forgetting causes moving on if it hasn't happened yet, the way I look at it, but other than that, I'm pretty sure these can happen in any order.

First off, the definitions I'm using so that folks don't get super confused. I've seen a lot of disagreement about what forgiveness even means, so I think this is important.

Moving on: I don't spend particularly much time thinking about it. If something with a similar pattern comes up or I'm digging for examples, I might think of it. If someone brings it up, I know what they're talking about. Those last two are mostly to differentiate from forgetting. Moving on means thinking about the event isn't exactly taking up much time in my life. I probably don't think of it often.

Forgetting: I'm not going to come up the event as an example, not going to remember it if I see a pattern it fits in. If someone brings it up, my reaction is "wait, what?" or something along those lines. I may or may not have retained whatever I learned from the event itself, but I don't consciously remember the event. I think this is a pretty common idea of what forgetting is. Not something I can consciously decide to do, FYI.

Forgiving: I may or may not trust the person/organization, but I am not actively mad at them when I think about them/the event. I still recognize that it was a messed up thing to do, because if I didn't think it was messed up then I wouldn't think there was anything to forgive. There's some active relationship repair that's happening or has happened.

Now.
I'm actually going to use debts as a metaphor here. Yay metaphor time.

Forgetting means I lost the records. Forgiving means I cancelled the debts. Moving on means working under the assumption that the debt's not getting paid and not really worrying about this fact. If I run into the person and I've still got the records, I might make an attempt to get the debt repaid, or I might not, depending on a bunch of stuff. Even if I don't bother trying to collect, I still am aware that yes, it is a debt.

For me, forgiveness requires a real attempt to fix the problem and be better in the future. Moving on doesn't require that. Forgetting isn't something I decide to do, but it implies that I've moved on because I'm not thinking about it. When people talk about forgiveness as something that will lift a burden for the forgiver, I wonder if those people are equating forgiveness with moving on. Maybe they can't move on without forgiving. I don't know- I'm going to demonstrate "theory of mind" here and say that I recognize their mental states are different from mine. Yes, there is some sarcasm/satire at the idea of theory of mind that I'm intending in that statement. I'll continue said use of "theory of mind" and suppose that the people who insist I must be unduly burdened by the wrongs I've not forgiven don't understand how my mental state is different from theirs. That is, they are lacking this "theory of mind." But wait, I'm the one who's Autistic, so that can't be.

Too bad. So sad. If people are going to come up with ideas of the "root" of autism that are that silly, I'm going to poke fun at them when I get the chance.
Anyways.

I can move on without forgiving. A lot of people can. Related to the fact that I can do this, if I forgive someone who's wronged me, that's because they're attempting to fix the problem and do better. I'm not Jesus, folks. Not even Christian (though I am under the impression that they also want you to at least be sorry and try to change.) I'm kind of Jewish (went to Hebrew School, Bat Mitzvahed, family celebrations around Jewish holidays, but I don't really believe in any higher powers,) and I'm pretty OK with the way of handling forgiveness that I was taught in Hebrew school. See, while folks tended to not work that way in real life, the cycle went something like this, from the perspective of a person who did a wrong thing. "I'm sorry," was step one. "I won't do it again," and other statements of attempts to make it right were step two. Not doing it again was step three. I'm not a fan of the part where you're kind of expected to give forgiveness if the person who wronged you does all those things, but at least the expectation of being better is there.

(Hey, Neurodivergent K, I think your idea of what a person needs to do for a shot at forgiveness and the Jewish idea I was taught for what you need to do to be forgiven have some similarities.)
Anyways.

From my observations of the world, I'm going to assume there are also a lot of people who can't move on without forgiving. That's OK. Different mental states/mental processes for different people. I think potential problems arise when people assume that moving on requires forgiveness and give advice based on this assumption (or assume that potential bad effects of not moving on are automatically worse than potential bad effects of trusting someone who is making no attempt to be better.) I don't think those are the only places problems can come from, not by a long shot, but I think they're important.

Different people handle being wronged differently. Some folks need to use "never forgive, never forget" to keep themselves safe. That's especially true when the world actually isn't safe and people keep trying to do wrong things to you. Recognizing those patterns and staying the heck away from the folks who fall into those patterns, not letting them back in, can be important.

Sometimes the same people who need to do that might be people who actually can't move on without forgiving. I'm not in either of these categories of people, so I can't say what they absolutely think of this idea, but I've got an idea. It's that even if not being able to move on is a burden (and yes, I'm leaving that as an if,) sometimes taking on a burden is what you've got to do to stay safe. People make calculations of "which not-awesome thing is less bad?" all the time, and as much as it stinks to be making that kind of calculation... it's not the place of people who aren't making the calculation to say the people living that are doing it wrong. I'm not sure there's actually a contradiction in that sentence.

Long story short, moving on and forgiving aren't the same thing, and some people can do one without the other. I assume there are folks who can forgive without moving on as well, but I'm fairly sure that's not one of the combinations I can do.

And example time: I've moved on from a decent bit of the stuff that happened to be in 5-6th grade when the school somehow managed to attach another girl to me because she "behaved better around me." I've not forgiven them. If someone tried to defend what the school did as OK, especially if the school tried? They are in DEEP TROUBLE. But as long as no one/nothing else brings it up, I don't exactly spend my time worrying about it. I've got stuff I'd rather be doing.

Note that the problem sources I talked about here are just the ones where the person doing it actually means well. Demanding forgiveness because you're uncomfortable with another person's anger isn't meaning well, and there's a ton of other ways forgive/forget/move on/etc can get very ugly when people talking about it don't mean well. I'll go out on a limb and assume that I missed several ways it can go wrong even when people mean well, but I've not even tried to get into malicious stuff.